The SEO Secrets You NEED for Your Showit Shop with Lauren of Salted Pages

[00:00:00] 

Lauren: Google actually knows that at the end of the day, their audience is humans.and that when we overdo it, it’s not gonna do well. And so it’ll punish you if you try too hard.

Ingrid: Welcome to another episode of The Inspired Brew. 

My name is Ingrid, your host, and today I am with Lauren of Salted Pages. super excited because we have a juicy topic that has been all over my dms and my emails, all about shop SEO Guys, you’re gonna be in love with Lauren by the end of this episode.

Lauren: Oh my gosh, that’s so sweet. I’m like, don’t tell my husband we’re celebrating 10 years of marriage in a couple months. I’m just kidding. I love it when we get to just . Spread this ripple effect of community and creativity learning connection. So thank you so much. This is incredible. I’m Lauren. I am a dog person.

I feel like that’s always something important for me personally to mention right off the get go. I’m also a sailor in training. I’ve been taking way too long. I’m probably at the worst student ever because the lake is like an hour from my house, but trying to actually learn how to sail a boat, which is fun.

And I’m also the wordsmith and [00:01:00] founder behind Salted Pages. So we essentially add flavor with words. We’re copywriters and we work primarily for artists, creative entrepreneurs, but really anyone with an original idea and a zest for life. 

And seeing that a large part of marketing is really about the message.

Like what are you saying? Who are you talking to? Our bread and butter is really like the website copy, the blog posts, the brand messaging, really anything. Written that’s a little bit longer than a social media caption that you are writing and sending and sharing with a client or with an audience, that is something that we take off of your plate and put beautifully on ours.

So I am landlocked in Fort Worth, Texas, but I grew up in New England and I feel like this work is incredible because it brings me to amazing people like Ingrid. So yeah, that’s kind of where we’ll end that

Ingrid: I love that and yes, to the dog people kind of deal because yes, me and my dog agree it is important. I do love all animals, but you know, dog people, it’s just different.

We have enjoyed a rare cat [00:02:00] person. 

I mean, some of my friends do have cats. I don’t shame them. But I am just a dog person. I love dogs. I actually rescue

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: I’m really excited when I meet

Lauren: Same.

Ingrid: person.

Lauren: Same.

Ingrid: this is amazing. I love that you have been in different states. I have been always here in California, so I’m kind of boring, but I love that this kind of job really allows us to just connect with people all around the world. 

to that, what has been your favorite part of the job?

Lauren: I think it goes hand in hand with that. Like I grew up in Connecticut and now I’ve worked with people who live there and like I can Google Connecticut wedding photographer and find one of my clients ranking right there on page one of Google because of the work that we’ve done. It’s just like this weird ripple effect, but also really cool.

And then we’ve had people in Italy. My husband went there last year. we went there together last year for my birthday and got drinks with a client that we have in the Amalfi Coast. So it’s been really cool to see the world become a lot smaller. I, I moved a lot as a kid and people are always like, oh, where was your favorite place to live?

Or whatever, but [00:03:00] I. I feel like every place has a different set of people that you fall in love with or that you learn from. And so now this work allows me to continue that. And I think now I can bring that perspective of being the new girl and step into any location, any kind of genre or business that I’m writing for, and it just feels natural.

So mom and dad, I was mad at originally for making me move all the time, but now I think it has led me into this amazing, beautiful work where I have friends and clients in all places, and I love it.

Ingrid: Oh my gosh. That is just so good. And I love the fact that you are able to meet your clients sometimes, like in the most random of places, like yes. Was just randomly having dinner and the Amalfi goes with them. How amazing is that?

Lauren: Humble. Humble brag. Honestly, my husband, when I started this company, he decided to go. Become an airline pilot. And so that has helped a lot because I can work remotely and, you know, hold up the shop here at home in Texas, but easily hop on a plane and and go meet [00:04:00] a client. So that’s made it a little easier.

That’s my little secret sauce.

Ingrid: Okay, so for everyone out there, please go marry a pilot, get that on the sideline so that we can just travel for that. I love it. No, that is amazing. Honestly, I have

Lauren: little opportunities to meet my own clients in person. And it just holds a deep space in my heart. Like it’s so

Hmm.

Ingrid: It’s, it’s the same because honestly we connect really well, but it is so different to have that in-person, connection with them.

So I love that you’ve been able to just work with so many different kind of businesses in so many different places, I feel like you have to really get into their brains when you’re working with them. You’re writing those things for them. So speaking of

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: what is your drink or snack of choice when you have a deep work kind of day?

Lauren: I honestly love waking up and making my own coffee. Like that just puts me in the right zone, in the right mood. We bought this fancy espresso machine last year, so I’ve been learning how to like really finesse the recipe for it, but like you’ve just been [00:05:00] doing my normal drip coffee, a little bit of almond milk, maybe some honey and lavender and

Drink away in the summer it’s ice. So like today I got like a takeout one after my my workout class. But normally I’ll just make a nice hot one and it goes cold and I have to microwave it probably like four or five times. But that is my process.

Ingrid: That is part of it. It, I feel like if it doesn’t go cold, it’s like, were you actually in deep work or was this

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: Day

Lauren: You were just sitting there like, if, if I’m reading questionnaires from clients, I can get away with maybe having half of my hot cup of coffee, but that is very rare. Like normally I’m like aching to get this idea out of my head and need to just be all up here in my keyboard and with my mouse and the drink just sits over there and, and at the end of the day I’ll have like

Four or five random things like I’ll have my water, my tea, because I decided I needed to cut myself off of the caffeine and go with an herbal tea, and then it’ll be the water and they’re all maybe half gone by the end of the day, and that [00:06:00] means I had a deep day of work.

Ingrid: I love that. Especially because three drinks are staring at me right now

Lauren: That’s so funny.

Ingrid: get the feel.

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: it’s part of the work, I guess, that it’s part of like when you have an attire for work, we’re right here, we have multiple drinks, it’s just part of it. It makes sense. so I love

Lauren: Perfect.

Ingrid: sharing it. I feel a little bit less

Lauren: Yes.

Ingrid: with that. And

Lauren: Good. Good.

Ingrid: good topic for today, honestly, I feel it’s so juicy. they are gonna get a treat. I have seven questions right here for Lauren and. Every single one of them is just going to build upon each other because I feel like she has the insight that everybody’s gonna be missing and wanting to listen to this episode again when they’re building their shops. I don’t

Lauren: Hmm.

Ingrid: if you are starting a fresh shop or if you are just refreshing optimizing to give a peek into what you’ve done. I feel like you’re gonna get a lot of good insights right here. 

So let’s start with the basics. What are the most of a high converting shop page? 

Lauren: Yeah, so when I picture a feed of an online shop, [00:07:00] to me one of the most important things is the ease of navigation, like skim ability, for example, to be able to easily scroll into that page and easily find, let’s say categories. That’s one of those key things you can circle on your notes right now.

Category something they can easily click to say, okay, I need this, not that, and it opens it up in a really . Clean, sleek, not overwhelming way. I don’t want there to be too many things going on, or so many different categories like that are too in depth. Like if your category description or button is like three or four words long and each of them are three or four words long, it’s so hard to wrap your head around that.

It’s like if my GPS started to tell me like turn 45 degrees, I would be like, what? So same thing with your categories. We want it to be very straightforward of like, okay, is this a copywriting template? Is this a. CO is this a course? Just really simplify it. So that’s one of the biggest things that we see of like critical needs is having those clear, easy to see use categories.

You’re laughing. I feel like you probably have a great [00:08:00] example of

Ingrid: And their beautiful.

Lauren: yes. Yes.

Ingrid: I, I love that you mentioned scalability. I feel like

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: almost everything, but just focusing back onto the shop and product pages, that is a huge thing just from a user experience perspective, but

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: your case, with all the things that you’ve seen, how does that impact SEO and the user experience that people are gonna have on that page?

Lauren: Honestly, the sooner they can find what they’re looking for or get an idea of these amazing like tools that you have in your shop, then the better the conversions will be. If they have to click a million different things and like I. People, we, we don’t wanna treat people like they’re lazy, but we kind of also do need to treat them in that way.

Like just make it easy. Like when you check into a nice hotel, there’s been some that I go to and I’m like, did I park in the right place? Do you like validate that? what time is like, I hate when I have to go in and ask questions. So like, agree, shot page is designed where I’m, don’t start with a million questions.

Like they start to easily just naturally get answered as I [00:09:00] go through that process. So I think like having those clear categories is really incredible. But then also having a clear process, like if these are courses, well, how long do I have access to the course? If these are downloads, am I downloading a PDF?

Am I downloading a Google Doc link? Like just kind of lay it out very clearly and simply so I can easily visualize. I feel like the visualization is really key here. So they know the next steps, and that process of adding to cart, checking out and handing over their credit card information is just such a ascension and a no brainer.

So process, I think is another thing that should really be not only on that main shop page, but especially on . Like the individual product page so they can see like the reviews, the description, the features, and then like just three simple steps like what happens next. That is often something that can make a really big difference, especially like

Showit templates, if they’ve never used Showit, they’re gonna have a lot of questions and be like, I don’t know how to use this. I don’t know what to expect. What do you mean? Like I have to add it to my library. Like, so we just wanna make it clear if they’ve never played with it and [00:10:00] you’re telling someone, you’re kind of walking grandma through it.

I want it to feel a little bit surface level so that it’s not confusing. I don’t wanna inspire questions, I want to answer them.

Ingrid: Ooh. I love that. Not inspiring questions. Actually answering them. I feel

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: needs to be on everyone’s wall when they’re building their.

Lauren: does this lead to a question or an answer? Yes or no? . We need just like a one of those flow charts. That’ll be perfect.

Ingrid: Oh, that would be so cool. But, we are now going to have to have that on every single template that I sell so that it’s like, are you writing your own copy? Yes. Well, it’s very basic for you, but are you answering a question or are you generating

Lauren: Mm

Ingrid: questions? That’s important

Lauren: mm.

Ingrid: to know. And I feel like that also taps into the whole SEO portion because a lot of people try to overdo it. They’re trying, they’re not really trying to answer the questions that humans will have. So when we take a peek at SEO in shops and product pages. it feels like people are a little bit at odds when they’re writing their own stuff because [00:11:00] are they writing it for the SEO and all the crawlers and Google and Bing and Yahoo and all of the other search engines? Or are they writing it for their own people? Are they giving them the

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: So how do you as a professional balance that between, I need to write for SEO, but I also need to write for

Lauren: Right, right. Honestly, for if I, if I have a client who says, Lauren, I kind of wanna DIY this, and I don’t wanna hire an expert, I normally. Coach them to start with what they would say to an ideal client as opposed to the SEO. I feel like if I send them down the SEO tunnel, they’re just gonna get lost.

They’re never gonna see the light of day. So I’m like, start with, if we didn’t have to think about SEO, what would we explain? What would we tell them? And then usually from there, like once we have an initial draft of a product description or a product title, there’s gonna be some good information there of.

If I wanted that page to be found on Google or to be, you know, easily found on Pinterest, that’s also, you know, a great search engine. What are the things that I would [00:12:00] type in to find that? So that’s a really great way to start of like human first and just what naturally comes out. And then go like, I like to do the actual keyword research with tools like Uber suggests or things like that where you can look up.

Phrases, and it’ll tell you how often those phrases are typed into Google per month, how competitive it is, like how many other people are also trying to rank for that. And then you can kind of backtrack and use those keywords and go back and say, oh, I never thought of this product as a copywriting course for wedding photographers, but

really when I boil it down, that’s what it is. And then that’s something you can take back and incorporate naturally into what you already wrote and really focus on for humans. And then just add that in in a natural way. So that’s what I would say. If you’re DIYing it, I do the opposite because I already have that great writing skillset and that’s really honed in.

I start with my SEO keyword and like what do I need to rank? And then I go through and write based on that. But that’s because my writing is already like up to the point that I need it to be. And I. Don’t have to worry about over optimizing or making it robotic because I [00:13:00] know how to do that. But when you don’t know how to do that, that’s where copy first and then kind of just reverse it would be my recommendation.

Ingrid: Just a little sprinkle after the fact when you have actually written a human, like for other humans

Lauren: Yes.

Ingrid: document. Yep, yep, yep, yep. I love that. And I feel like it also helps them to just make them. It’s actually write in a natural way in their own voice without

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: into the deep ends of, am I doing this right?

What is so and so doing? Can I copy what they’re doing? You’re not ranking for the same thing. Even if you’re selling the same, your audiences are different.

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: brand is marketing is different, so I feel like really need to just. Focus without the thing, like just not thinking about SEO and then just go back in and sprinkle it.

Lauren: Yes. Yes. Because they get lost.

Ingrid: they’re doing it themselves.

Lauren: Mm-hmm

 Like if you’re using like an AI tool for the writing process. I guess you could use my, my philosophy and start with the key word and then ask for it to plug it in. But sometimes chat GBT or Claude, like it just makes it so stuffy [00:14:00] and uses it so awfully that I am like, ugh. I would maybe still have it write like a great description and then maybe you go in and optimize it afterwards and, and sometimes that really just means using the phrase once in that little paragraph, once in a subtitle on the page.

Like it’s just a couple key times. We wanna use that phrase. We don’t need to . Splash it everywhere because then it’s just not only overdone for a normal reader and client who feels like, I feel scammed just looking at this, but also because Google will penalize you and not rank you as well if it also feels scammy and overdone.

So that’s a funny thing ’cause people are like, oh, SEO is so robotic and it’s so overdone and this and that, but I’m like, Google actually knows that at the end of the day, their audience is humans.and that when we overdo it, it’s not gonna do well. And so it’ll punish you if you try too hard, which is awful. But that’s just the way it’s.

Ingrid: I feel like that is a conversation that I have with almost all of my clients that come in for an audit because you’d be surprised that people are still being recommended that they need to have a [00:15:00] hidden text box, that it’s the same color as the background with all of the keywords,

Lauren: No.

Ingrid: and I’m like, you definitely want to get banned by search engines.

Do youthey. They just don’t know what they don’t know. And there is some

Lauren: yeah.

Ingrid: advice out there, and people just end up going down the bad path unfortunately. And I feel like

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: can write in a human way and still just add a tinsy bit of sprinkles of your keywords and get better results than if you were stuffing it to the brim just to get on page one and get ranked for that on your product.

Like, hmm, that’s not gonna work that way. I am sorry.

Lauren: So, so accurate. And funnily enough, like I have some content that even for me, like back in the day when I first launched my business, I had more time on my hands and would just write blogs to, to write blogs and share information and details with people. And some of those posts still rank really well to this day because I followed that technique of just writing what I [00:16:00] felt like someone would want to know and in a way that was really helpful to them.

And . , it does a great like job. It gets me traffic, it gets the clicks, it gets the views. But because I was just very forward with what’s gonna be helpful and didn’t try to stuff key words or go about it in a robotic way, like if it feels spammy and if it feels like you’re trying to hard, then we should stop and reverse a little bit.

Ingrid: I love that. I feel like that is a great cue. If you feel like you’re actually trying too hard, you are this is not the place for that you. Really don’t. I feel like at this day and age, we don’t really need to get super technical and mathematical to get the SEO results that we need. Yes, it does take a lot of work.

I’m not saying that it doesn’t, because believe me, yes to the late nights of just getting all the research done when we’re doing it for clients, but at the end of the day.

Lauren: mm-hmm

Ingrid: It needs so much of the human touch now because there’s an abundance of content out there. So it is easy to just like stuff it or [00:17:00] do whatever, but we’re not really answering those questions.

So I think that it takes back into what you were mentioning at the beginning. Is this inspiring another question or is this answering a question? feel like those kind of things, at least for me and what I’ve seen from the clients, but for myself. Blog posts that are over five years old still bring sales because they’re answering a question in a very specific like journey stage and whatnot.

Like, yes, there was a thought behind it, but it was coming out as answering a question to a real person that could have just asked me that. so

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: just that question forward and the answer is right there on that blog post. So I feel like it’s kind of like the same with the products because. You will have a unique way of delivering this product, of creating this product, like what’s in it? If it’s a Showit template like you mentioned, how it was built, it’s different than from another designer. Your intention is different. So I feel like

Lauren: absolutely.

Ingrid: helps you bring in a little bit more of your own storytelling answering those questions at the beginning without having to like [00:18:00] make it all super stuffed. But I feel like when we are talking about that SEO and people start getting nervous, they make mistakes, like huge mistakes. What has been the

Lauren: Hm

Ingrid: mistake that either you see repeatedly or something

Lauren: mm-hmm

Ingrid: this is a major thing that

Lauren: Right.

Ingrid: seen with your clients?.

Lauren: I would say outside of the keyword stuffing or the putting a keyword in white text and like hiding it on the page somewhere, one of the biggest mistakes I see is maybe not using their . Text tags correctly, and if you have no idea what we’re talking about, essentially that’s just like a table of contents for that page or for that website to say, Hey, this is the title of the page, this is the subtitle.

You’re just breaking it down in the settings of your text boxes to tell Google . What’s important on that page, and we see a lot of times where someone will like create a little product page. They’re selling their little course of their template and they’ve not paid any attention to that. So they either don’t have an H one, so they don’t have a heading or a title tag [00:19:00] for that page.

Or they have five text boxes and they’ve told Google in their settings that all of those five text boxes are each ones, which is just confusing and therefore you’re not doing anything. And so just going through the backend, if you’re using, Showit like your text properties of those little boxes and making sure that the, ideally the title of the product or maybe the key word of that product is your H one and then the rest don’t need to be, you only want one H one per page. That’s probably one of the top SEO issues that I’ve seen. And I promise if you Google what are Showit header tags or what are header tags, it’s actually really quite simple and it takes like five minutes or less to fix on a page. Like you don’t need to know how to code, for most, you know, drag and drop platforms, so

Ingrid: I love that you just gave them the perfect, easy fix for something

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: big. And one of the things that I feel like to this day still holds a lot of value to have right from the beginning with your H tags on the correct order first of all, [00:20:00] and making sure that there’s only one H one.

It doesn’t matter that you try to say, this is important and this is important. So everything’s gonna

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: No. Please don’t. That is actually doing the contrary. You’re just confusing the robots. They’re not

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: they’re just literally reading the code. So if you mislabel it, they’re gonna read it in the wrong way at the end of the day.

So I love the love

Lauren: Absolutely.

that’s a focus and a fix that people can do. I guess fairly easy. Mm-hmm

Ingrid: less friendly like if you’re on Showit, by all means, it is literally on your right hand side panel. It is just one click and you get that fixed. You just republish and it’s good to go.

Your site map is gonna be

Lauren: Yes.

Ingrid: when, when the robots are going in and crawling that it’s going to get all updated for you. So I feel like. is something that everybody should go and do right now, or at least after they listen to this episode, so that they can just triple check that their pages in general, but especially their shop pages and their product pages have the right H tags.

Because you want to start ranking without even having to just think about the keywords. [00:21:00] It’s just what’s already there. What already exists

Lauren: Right.

Ingrid (2): So inside of the pages, okay, we got the structure right, but I feel like another big point of the bit is the length because. I’ve seen it go like, no, you have to be super short or you have to go and like drop in all of the information.

So in your opinion, how detailed should a product description really be for both SEO and conversions to the humans?

Lauren: Mm-hmm . And to me, those go hand in hand. Like we use the SEO to get them to the page, but then we use the, the rest of the copy and the messaging, the layout to get them to the checkout. So they both really just work well together. But the length, honestly, we’ll go back to that, that like rule of thumb, the skim ability.

So that could mean that you have a lot of information. But you’ve broken it down into a paragraph, maybe a couple of like bulleted items of the features. Maybe there’s a section beneath that that goes more into like who it’s for or the technicalities of it, [00:22:00] all the different things that are included.

Maybe there’s like a tutorial beneath that, but we just really want it to be, I. really broken down. but at the end of the day, it’s that first little bit of content that they see that need, that’s like the most important. And we do kind of have to take, I’m thinking like a little blurb. I’ve got like my fingers held up here,

But like, we have to take a little blurb and really make sure that is saying what it needs to, to get them to either just check out right then and there, or to get them to stay on the same page and see the rest of the features that you’ve laid out. So I want maybe like three or four sentences, maybe two to four is probably a, a, a better amount there where they can easily see an idea of like what this is, who it’s for, how it’s different from others.

And you can add into some of the like, spice of your brand voice. I know for us, like we with references to like. You know, dash of salt or smooth sailing, Seamless, like things that are just very much part of our textured brand vocabulary. You can do that for your business. So [00:23:00] like if it’s like a brewer coffee theme or if it’s like a dog theme, you can say like, dog ear, this template, or whatever it might be.

You can have some fun with it, but I do want it to be, I think short and sweet is kind of what we’re going for there. So, . 

I, I would say if it feels like it’s too long and you have a, a very large image and the paragraph is just as tall as that image right next to it, then we need to start over. Like, look at Amazon.

We all, most of us buy from that all the time, and it’s a little . I don’t wanna like offend anyone who’s, who’s worked on that, but it is just a little, there’s a lot going on on an Amazon checkout page, but that’s because they’re selling the world’s worth of products. So for you, we can simplify that, but still, it’s a good kind of rule of thumb of like, what are the shops you’re buying from and easily checking out and trusting.

Okay, that’s a great kind of reference guide of length of copy that you need next to that product to sell it.

Ingrid: I feel like that is a great comparison, especially because people tend to go and compare their [00:24:00] own websites, their own shops to others, and sometimes it’s not others in their same realm or at the same

Lauren: True.

Ingrid: they’re comparing a level 100 from a different business with a completely different audience, a completely different marketing approach, a completely different everything. To whatever they need to be doing. And it’s like, well, I need all of that. No, you don’t. First of all, no you don’tso really getting the length right and that structure, I love the way that you are saying it, and honestly, is such a crucial tiny millisecond that you get. You are not going to deliver that in a whole chunk.

It needs to be delivered in the shortest way possible. And lot of people just want to like, get everything in there because it needs to be out. No, it doesn’t. It just needs to be compelling. Like, who is this product for? they just need to know quickly looking at it if the image

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: doesn’t really answer that for me, which it should because product imagery is a whole other [00:25:00] topic, But just getting your product title and your short description. Really to the point where it’s easily and succinctly answering the question. That should be more than enough make sure that you have the right things in there. And if you sprinkled your little SEO keywords after you went back into it, then it should be more than ready for both.

So I feel like just following a simple structure and not trying to be Amazon, by all means that’s gonna

Lauren: Yes,

Ingrid: that’s gonna be the answer for that. B

ut I feel like that also It just brings me to the question because it’s something that I’ve seen with my clients, and I’m pretty sure that you might have encountered this with your own, the differences on crafting that compelling product description between a low ticket item versus a high ticket item. so any patterns that you’ve noticed that convert better in terms of, depending on the price of your product, this is what we’ve seen or what you would [00:26:00] recommend.

Lauren: Absolutely. I would say for the lower priced products out there, the price already kind of makes the purchase typically a no-brainer, right? It’s $15, it’s $25. We have a couple templates on our website like that as well. And the only thing I think we have on some of those pages is literally just the product image, or maybe like a gallery you can scroll through and then the product title.

A tiny little two to four sentence blurb, and then maybe three to four bullet points, and even that might be too much for some of these products, but very just short, sweet, to the point. We tell them what it is, what’s included, and then it’s priced so low that it’s a no brainer. I’m just gonna go ahead and grab that and take it home, and maybe it costs me, you know, a couple of coffees and that’s okay.

I don’t have to stress too much about it. Whereas of course a bigger ticket offer something that is $500, $700, we see a lot of like $1,200 templates out there.

Ingrid: Okay.

Lauren: That is something that we are going to need to reassure a little bit more [00:27:00] about. They’re not going, most people are not just going to immediately like add to cart checkout.

Perfect, great, amazing. There goes a thousand dollars of my money. Instead, they’re going to want to see that it is going to be impactful for them. So I think of a lot of like . Business owners and entrepreneurs that are buying these kind of templates for them, they wanna see the social proof, they wanna see the reviews.

Like, has this made a difference for other people? Am I going to earn my money back with this purchase? is this something that is just so valuable and so jam packed with all these goodies that of course it’s worth it. In fact, it should be costing me $3,000. So a thousand dollars is a great deal. Like we really want the information to be

A bit more in depth, but still skimmable so they can get that reassurance, that anticipation, maybe the fomo, whatever kind of emotions we feel like we need to pull at with our ideal client, to reassure them that yes, this is also just as much of a no brainer as that $15 template. So we do need some more content there.

I think FAQs is also something that’s gonna be more likely needed on a higher ticket offer [00:28:00] than a lower ticket offer because . It’s probably way more jam packed and way more intense and in depth, and we need to clarify. Yep. Who this is for. Yes, how long you’ll have access to it, and all that kind of jazz.

So a little bit more information is usually needed the higher it costs.

Ingrid: Okay. Yes, I absolutely agree with that. 

And I feel like that just goes back into the whole, if you’re stuffing it and you’re trying to just make it, honestly, it sounds like you’re trying too hard. sounds scammy like

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: not the same. Are you trying too hard because you’re trying to convince me. It is a very high ticket item and I need to be convinced to buy this and look at all the perks and all the goodies. But if it’s a $15 product and you’re trying to sell it like this is a $3,000 course, we have an issue because now it sounds too good to be true and you’re answering too many questions. This thing is definitely not gonna be what I think it it is for the $15 that I’m trying to pay for it

Lauren: Well, and I am curious, Ingrid, if you’ve seen, I know like if I go back to like [00:29:00] 2020, the sales pages and like high end product pages we were seeing were I. Really, really long, and I think that was because it was like a bit of a new era of people charging thousands of dollars for things you can buy online that aren’t clothes or purses or fashion or jewelry.

Like that was a course, a membership, a template, but now I’ve seen that kind of come back down to reality where I don’t need my sales page or my high ticket product page to be . Like a super crazy long essay. I’ve seen this more like middle of the road length because like you were saying, sometimes it’s like, okay, are we overselling over advertising?

And normally you’ve . Built some of that trust and built some of that like relationship connection conversion items prior to them getting to that product page. So maybe they’ve been following you on Instagram for a while, or they’re on your email newsletter list. So when they get to that product page, we don’t necessarily need to do the whole start to finish sales pitch, but that kind of [00:30:00] like middle of the road, like a middle length, not too long, not too short to reassure them, set those expectations, and then just get them to the next point.

But it also is dependent on . the program and the product because if your program or product is also like really in depth and linky and chitty and chatty, then I think a sales page or product page that’s really short would seem like a bait and switch. I would almost be disappointed. I would be like, wow, I thought this person was really direct and to the point.

I was excited to learn from them in a bite sized way, but then I download the course and it’s really winded like so long-winded. I think I would feel taken aback. So copy wise, like the amount of content you’re putting on that page, be mindful you’re not doing a bait and switch, like be genuine to what they’re going to be downloading and getting access to because that can also just really disappoint or frustrate people because they feel like they were sold this really long thing, but then it was like actually really short and there was nothing there.

Or the person was really direct on the sales page, but then the course was just too much to handle. So [00:31:00] that’s something else I try to be really mindful of.

Ingrid: I love that, and especially because that is very easy to just. I get wrong, I guess. with most of my clients, when we’re doing their brand strategy, I

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: emphasize a thousand times they need cohesiveness between not just the design, not just the visuals, but the messaging, the tone, the way that they’re speaking.

And I feel like that is exactly what you’re saying at this point with, with anything that we’re selling, whether it’s a regular product on a regular shop page, and it’s just like eCommerce, or if this is a sales page for a more in-depth product or a course that you’re selling. It has to be in line with everything that they’re gonna get at every touch point. So I can’t just try to convince you just to get your credit card to swipe by and then give you something completely different. Because even though

Lauren: mm-hmm

Ingrid: valuable, this is not what they signed up for. This is not what they

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: expected. So it can be a really valuable product, but if you positioned it one way and delivered it another. [00:32:00] Then the trust factor is gonna go down the drain, and now you’re gonna have a less than happy customer,

Lauren: Yes. Yes, absolutely. And that’s like one of the top things I try to avoid because we all do our best work when we’re working with people who trust us and adore us and rave about us. So to have a disappointed customer at the end of that line, that’s not what you put all this work into. That’s not why we’re sitting here like having this conversation to have someone who gets something and is disappointed.

So let’s avoid that and just be consistent.

Ingrid: So yes, by, by all means people. SEO is important to get found and whatnot, but once . You have your people there, it needs to be consistent. What are they getting? And the quality and in the way that you actually communicate with your audience, it just needs to deliver the way that they are expecting it to. I feel like that is one of the biggest areas where people start comparing, oh, but so and so are doing this, and if they’re selling it this way, then I need to do that. No, you don’t. And yes, I’ve seen the shift between The super long, extra, extra long [00:33:00] sales pages, which I still think of them when I see them.

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: like old school marketing that it

Lauren: Yes.

Ingrid: very infomercial.

Lauren: You deserve this? Yeah.

Ingrid: oh my gosh. And they have the same like from a

Lauren: Oh.

Ingrid: perspective, like they have the same old school feel that the infomercials from eons ago. And you see it and you feel it when you are reading it. And it’s just like,

Lauren: Oh,

Ingrid: I, like I trust you, but, but your sales page just like sold me out of it.

Thank you. Goodbye. I. Still that even higher ticket items liketemplates that are gonna be around a thousand to two a thousand. They went from being these huge sales pages actually a product page because it’s in

Lauren: Hmm.

Ingrid: and they’re back into a regular product page kind of format. And that is happening across industries, not just from like Showit templates or, with copy templates.

Like I’ve seen it across different products and Their price points might be higher. And even though we’re trying to give [00:34:00] more context and we are giving them a little bit of extra sections like an FAQ, how does this work? Like just literally trying to answer those questions that we were mentioning at the beginning. are less they’re more human in terms of that is what’s converting. Honestly, I feel like that is the biggest portion that we can see a comparison with. Before it was just all about how can we fill this space to make it feel

Lauren: Yeah.

Ingrid: and like it will be the best thing that you buy ever. But now I, I don’t feel like it’s much more convincing. It’s more so what trust factors have you really checked off the list? How have you and like established that relationship, and that like tiny nurturing piece that you have, whether it’s social media, your email marketing, whoever it was that already kind of pre-sold it. Because even if you’re not promoting that product. You pre-sold the brand, you pre-sold the connection. They already have to trust you by the moment that they get there. If you are running ads, like if it’s a cold audience, by all means the approach is going to be a little bit different. There’s gonna be some

Lauren: Sure.

Ingrid: you might [00:35:00] need to answer, but you still wouldn’t go long

sales page for a product page. Come on Whoa.

Lauren: was just listening, to your podcast episode about like the brand archetypes, and I feel like that’s something that goes totally along with this whole conversation of bringing that personality into this product page or this shop feed, whatever it might be, and just creating this experience. Like one fun thing I’ve tried to ask my clients lately is

like if your brand or your business was a place or a hotel or just like, I want you to pick the item destination or thing that is on brand for you and who you are, and then like find some examples where you’re like, that’s the way. I want this to feel like something you can almost like taste the way that it’s described, and so then we can bring that into their product description, their product page, even the products that they choose to sell in the first place.

Like do those fall under the same umbrella of that ultimate like mission and purpose [00:36:00] they have with their clients? Are they taking care? Are they hyping up? Like whatever it might be. Let’s do that with . That product and the, the copy that’s around it. So there’s a lot of different things that can come through there too, which is just really fun.

So I think just keeping your head down a little bit and looking in those other fun industries is another great way to make it authentic to you and your like just natural sales style or your natural just way of being the people find magnetic and then it works.

Ingrid: I love that. I love that because I feel like it just brings it back to the whole, it needs to be true to you and you are moving the needle forward for your own brand, for your own business.

Lauren: Yeah,

Ingrid: You are not going to get the results that you want if you’re just trying to emulate what’s so and so are doing what you see that the competitors are putting out there.

It is nice

Lauren: do.

Ingrid: eye on what’s going on in the market, like, yes, please keep a pulse on it, but that cannot be your North Star. You have to have your own. 

Lauren: Oh, I can agree more. And, and that’s why it’s hard sometimes. ’cause I think some people are, are, they’re new, right? So they haven’t had the chance to like test [00:37:00] the waters and figure that out. But for people who have been in business at least two to three years, we can normally sit down and say, okay, who

Have you worked with or sold this product to that just inspires you and lights you up and you could get an email from them and that’s the first email you wanna respond to. Have a hundred emails. That’s the one you see and like puts a smile on your face versus who are the clients that when you saw their email pop into your inbox, you got that like pit in your guy and you just started to get the anxiety.

And then it’s like we start to just narrow down the differences of maybe the respect that was there, the trust, the ways of working. Maybe you are type A, but you prefer a more type B client or maybe you’re type A and you also prefer to be work with people who are Type A because they just get it, they’ll listen, they’ll respect it, and it just flows together really well.

So just keeping that through line. Is so, so critical. And sometimes I’ve done the same thing. I’ve sold an offer or sold a product because I got excited and had seen some trends, but then I realized like, oh my gosh, that was so off of what we’re trying to put out there . [00:38:00] And then I have to dial it back down, come back to ground zero and just focus on what I want, but also on what’s going to make that long-term impact for my clients.

Ingrid: I love that. I love that. And honestly, I feel like more need to need to just refocus on what’s gonna bring in the impact for them, but actually for their audiences. Because the minute

Lauren: Yes,

Ingrid: sell with the intention of serving, that is what’s gonna get us the good sales, the better clients, and it’s going to give them the better results. So it just comes back to it like it is a full circle.

This just tells me like we are in sync with how we see things flowing, and I love that for our clients. I love that For those that are listening right now, you don’t have to be competing with your own competitors.

They are just other people in the market that are selling the same thing. plenty of business for everyone. There’s plenty of people that are gonna buy things. You just need to make sure that it really feels like you, that you are doing your due diligence. but obviously keeping things with the proper [00:39:00] items like the H tags that we were talking about before, especially if SEO is gonna be like your top thing right now because you have

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: product.

You feel like you’ve written the perfect, description for it. Okay, great. Nice for that. But go back, do a little research, do a little sprinkle in. I feel like if we had to boil it down, we need to give them that one thing that in your opinion, if they were to change something or apply something, because maybe they’re launching their shop, but if they already have something existing, if they have one thing that they can do either to their shop page, which has the listings of all the products or to the product page just to see this better results start moving the needle forward. In your opinion, what would that be?

Lauren: So I was in San Diego, I should have called you a few weeks ago for an event, and we sat down with over like 20 small business owners and critiqued their websites. And every single time we would focus a lot on the desktop, but then I would pull out my phone and [00:40:00] look at their website from my phone and.

That’s what I would recommend doing is auditing your shop and your checkout and download process from your phone, because that is where most people are viewing, finding, buying, and that’s usually where you’ll realize, wow, things are really cluttered or . My headline is chopped off, or, wow, this paragraph was just really saying way too much.

I could have trimmed that down to just one sentence. So really just auditing the overall flow copy. How many times did you see that key word? Wow, that was also too much. So I think just auditing. Your shop from your phone is one of the best things that you can do to help with conversions and reading through it, clicking it all, and like if there’s something that you’re like, oh, I would, I would not buy this if I was the one on the end or other end of the line, or like, I would not read this.

Then what do we think in our, our audience is doing? I know there’s gonna be different people and they don’t always think or view or browse things in the same way that you do, [00:41:00] but that’s one of the, the best things you can do is be very mindful of the mobile experience.

Ingrid: Oh yes, please. Thank you for saying that. I feel like most people put the extra effort on everything desktop, and it’s gorgeous and they just do mobile as the afterthought, and they don’t even care. It’s just like, ah, it took so long to get this right. Is it viewable? Is it readable? Great. Let’s just call it a day.

I am like, Hmm, you just left half of the people hanging because you didn’t care for that experience. And

Lauren: right.

Ingrid: things so differently when we’re on our phone versus when we’re on a desktop or it’s very rarely but a tablet, usually it’s gonna bring in some of that desktop experience. But honestly, a phone is just quite different.

Like even on the

Lauren: different.

Ingrid: effects like putting a hover somewhere just to make a little animation, like very much a different behavior. So if I can’t read it because you put it behind an image and it’s supposed to hover, guess what? On mobile, [00:42:00] it needs to be outside of that image. I can’t see it. I can’t hover it. So

Lauren: Oh, such a pain point.

Ingrid: You can feel my pain. You can see what I do when I’m doing

Lauren: And the good thing is most of us like have like spare random time in our schedule where like maybe you’re on the train headed somewhere or you’re at the airport waiting a flight or you’re like at the doctor’s office. Like there is key times where like maybe when you would’ve normally been on social media scrolling.

Take that time and audit your website, screenshot the pages where you’re finding issues, come back to it. I did that myself because I was like, oh no, I saw so many things on so many websites. I should probably literally be a little bit introspective here and look at my own website and find its problems.

So using that spare time accordingly is just so, so impactful. And. Fun tip is that I often will take certain sections that I will hide on my mobile version, but have visible on desktop because I realized on mobile that it’s just way too much scrolling, way too long. It’s not as [00:43:00] influential. Whereas desktop, I’m like, oh, there was some breathing room here.

I could add a little bit more like of this strategic fluff. But I’ve toggled some of those things off on my phone because I realized it was just too much and I needed to get to the point. So that’s something else that you can do, especially on show it. They make it super easy to have like, okay, this is only visible on my desktop, or this is only visible on my phone.

I do that. quite often you just have to be careful that you don’t forget about certain things that aren’t there, are there, because that can happen. You have a price in one section and not on another, and you don’t pay attention. So just be careful about what you toggle on and off. I would just have it be the extras and not the essentials, like the price or the checkout button.

Ingrid: I love that. And yes, I feel like between trying to bridge both experiences, between being on desktop and being on mobile, turning things off can give you a little bit more breathing room and a better flow for desktop and mobile at the same time, because maybe Desktop with all of the horizontal space that we have.

If we have extra text or if we have extra images, we might not be able to fit all those things on mobile. But then again, you mentioned something super important. It really depends on your platform. With [00:44:00] Showit we have it super easy. We just toggle that off, and it is not gonna show on the actual code.

This is a little bit of a nerdy tip in there, but some of the things that I notice when I’m doing audits for clients is that. If they’re on something like ProPhoto or other kind of platforms that are like just, more code based. sometimes they turn off certain blocks just to hide the visibility, it’s not actually removing the code from there.

So now you have double the content. And now we have another issue right in there because for an SEO perspective,

Lauren: Interesting.

Ingrid: double the content, it’s going to feel like you’re stuffing it and search engines don’t love it. So just be very mindful of what you’re turning on and off. But that is a great way to make sure that your mobile is cleaner less stuffed and just a little bit more flowy, so I love it. Follow Lauren’s direction. Next time that you’re trying to do a little doom scroll, just take a peek at your own stuff. Become

Lauren: Mm-hmm

Ingrid: fan and see how would you like it? Would you book yourself? Would you find your calls to action easily?

Would, is it easy to actually check out? Because I feel like that is one of the things that people really test. They don’t purchase their [00:45:00] own things and they’re like, I never noticed that maybe my checkout was just like caught in half because I didn’t set the correct settings here, or I don’t know, whatever it was. You need to see your own experience from your audience’s eyes. I.

Lauren: Yes, yes. 

And then my favorite thing is to like play with the copy too on that sales page, on that checkout page or the final delivery page. There’s some fun stuff you can do there. I know I have on one of mine, like when they received the template, it says like, Nutmeg my dog. It says like with a photo of her.

It’s like, Nutmeg’s been hard at work, like creating this for you. Please enjoy like. We could have fun because at that point they’ve bought it. They get to laugh a little like at me and at themselves, and then go and download it and enjoy the product. So you can get a little spicier, I would say, after the product purchase, but not so spicy because that click bait is not something we wanna do.

Ingrid: I love that. And it is so funny on my sales pages for most of my courses, at the end, after the, after the big sections, I have a frequently asked question area, and I have a picture of my dog Yui, and it says, well, [00:46:00] Yui thinks that you might have some questions. Here are some answers for you. So it’s like, yeah, you just put in the personality

Lauren: Yes, those little personal like, and sometimes that’s what does the trick, they’re like, okay, they’re human. I could enjoy being in a room with this person or looking at this PDF for hours from this person, and it can just do the little magic. So don’t be afraid to mention those, kind of like whether it’s a toxic trait or really like

Great fun fact that you rescue dogs like the two of us do, like whatever it is, you can sprinkle those in in a really simple and fun converting way.

Ingrid: Connections sell people. Don’t be afraid

Lauren: Mm-hmm.

Ingrid: audience. Don’t be afraid to show your human side of things. there’s always gonna be someone that’s gonna love that. yes. We’re not gonna be the great fit for every single person out there. We don’t want that. We want, the right people. So don’t be afraid to put that out there. I love it. Lauren, you have most amazing brain. I love digging through all [00:47:00] of

Lauren: Oh, stop.

Ingrid: everybody’s going to have to listen to this episode over and over because yes to all of the SEO juices that you have just like dropped in here. there’s so many gems.

Please, people, you have to go back into all of these points. 

Lauren, tell us where can people find you? How can they connect with you?

Lauren: Yeah, absolutely. We are salted pages pretty much everywhere, so like a salted caramel, but salted pages. That’s Instagram, that’s our website, Pinterest, all of that jazz. We are an open book, so if you heard something and you’re like, love that. Doing it now, like I. I wanna see them behind the scenes. I wanna like share it on my stories and put your products out there in front of my audience as well.

So always feel free that you can reach out, and maybe if you rescued a dog, I’d love to know his or her name. And , we could share some cute photos of our little rescue babies.

Ingrid: Yes. See people, all the connections, all the good points, all the human connections that we want. We wanna see all of the edits that you do. Lauren’s being very kind, and she will be sharing those things with her audience.

So don’t be afraid. We are, we’re not gonna bite. We’re. We’re real humans [00:48:00] behind this microphone, so thank you so much for everyone listening. Thank you, Lauren, for sharing all of these goodies. It was golden. I love it. Thank you for sharing so much of your expertise.

Lauren: Thank you. Stay salted

Ingrid: See you on the next episode.